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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:20:00 -
[1]
Look like a rather minor mmath error but the premise and point is sound enough.
At 4.5km i make it:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 874dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 921dps out of 935 turret dps.
At 5.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 882dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 923dps out of 935 turret dps.
At 5.7km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 890dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 920dps out of 935 turret dps.
At 8.7km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 905dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 861dps out of 935 turret dps.
At 10.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 907dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 816dps out of 935 turret dps.
At 15.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 892dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 705dps out of 745 turret dps (NULL).
At 20.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 760dps out of 916 turret dps.
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 595dps out of 745 turret dps (NULL).
At 25.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 718dps out of 730 turret dps (SCORCH).
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 432dps out of 745 turret dps (NULL).
At 30.0km:
The abaddon hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 722dps out of 730 turret dps (SCORCH).
The megathn hits the unwebbed mwding max transversal raven for 272dps out of 745 turret dps (NULL).
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:28:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Neuts will still **** up even an injecting laserboat. I've had it happen to me. You can still get some shots off but random modules, including your guns. keep deactivating, even if you use injectors. Besides, injectors are on every ship. Lasers using more cap means the injector has less for the rep it's fueling.
Nuets screw over blaster ships just as much if not more as blaster ships not only need to MWD a lot to get into range but they also need to be inside even med nuet range of a target.
Lasers on the other hand can operate way outside even large nuet range.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 12:27:00 -
[3]
Its interesting to note that when ppl like goumindong and others try to justify amaar/lasers being so much more effective than blasters they use terms and designate roles to races, IE: amaar/laser weapons/ships being a "gang pvp" race and gallente/blasters being a solo weapons/ships.
If such a thing is the case then it seems only right that blasters should get a tracking buff amoung other things as at the moment the tracking issues they have is causing them to be ineffective in their designated solo "role".
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 18:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: bubbly bird
Its interesting to note that when ppl like goumindong and others try to justify amaar/lasers being so much more effective than blasters they use terms and designate roles to races, IE: amaar/laser weapons/ships being a "gang pvp" race and gallente/blasters being a solo weapons/ships.
If such a thing is the case then it seems only right that blasters should get a tracking buff amoung other things as at the moment the tracking issues they have is causing them to be ineffective in their designated solo "role".
Yes it's true that Lasers are to effective in the territory where Blasters should be much much better.
And to fix that, the best way is to nerf the tracking or reduce the raw DPS on Lasers a bit.
Reducing the raw DPS may work but a tracking nerf will be pointless due to the amount of webs used in combat.
Originally by: Electric Universe Also remember, but boosting the tracking on Blasters, you have to remember that Blasters will be way to effective against frigs and cruisers agan. And we don't want that. So by boosting tracking on Blasters, you will then create another big problem. So here you will fix one thing, but create another big problem.
If blasters get a tracking buff frigs and cruisers can tank them using range because blasters are a close range system, just like they can tank lasers by getting in close cosa lasers are aparantly a med range system.
Only a idiot would engage a pulse BS in a cruiser at 45-50km, and on the flip side of the coin it should be that only a idiot should engage a blaster BS in a cruiser at close range.
Originally by: Electric Universe But if you nerf the tracking on Lasers, you will then take away the effectivnes Lasers have in the Blasters territory.
The only place a laser tracking nerf will make lasers poor in blaster ranges is on a 1 v 1 EFT graph, on TQ in gang combat multiple webs make tracking irrelavant.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 19:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 28/05/2009 19:02:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
But for very small gang combat the tracking have ALOT to say. So for that case Lasers need a tracking nerf.
With just 2 webs a BS has its transversal reduced to point that even lasers with gimped to hell tracking hit them easily at blaster range.
So:
1. BS gangs so small they have LESS than 2 webs available (so only 1) do not exist.
2. Even if they did exist 2 webs make tracking unimportant.
Originally by: Electric Universe If Blasters get a tracking boost, then they will absolutely be overpowered against frigs and cruisers again. And normally when cruisers is on your Battleship they are mostly inside web range, simply because cruisers are mostly close range fitted and can't hit outside of web range.
Cruisers ect work in web/close range now against BS because they can use transversal to avoid dmg, against blaster ships however they can be at close OR longer range to avoid or reduce incoming dmg and as such a tracking buff would still allow them to use longer range to tank blaster BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe Then to the last thing. No, nerfing Lasers tracking will make small gang close range Gallente BS gangs very usefull over Amarr BS'es. Amarr BS'es are fleet BS'es anyways.
I dunno what sort of sized BS gangs you think happen on TQ but considering just 2 webs make even gimped to hell pulse BS tracking hit another BS just fine at blaster range the "small gangs" you are refering to need to consist of one ship...
So again i say and show that nerfing laser tracking will only make laser BS poor in blaster range on a 1 v 1 EFT graph because teams of 2 or more will have enough webs to make any tracking nerf pointless.
I think you need to step back and realise the differance between a theoretical situation and the reality of available pvp on eve, after all how often do you see a gang of just 2 BS on TQ cos the smallest BS gangs i see consist og a lot more than just 2 ships.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 19:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 28/05/2009 19:36:35
Originally by: Electric Universe
No matter how you look at it, Lasers should NOT be good in the territory where Blasters are good. Atm Lasers are way to good in that territory.
Maybe the problem is that lasers are to good but then maybe the problem is that blasters are not good enough.
Originally by: Electric Universe And because a Blaster Mega for example is a good Solo / Small gang BS, then an Amarr BS with Pulses should not be able to do the same and pretty much be as good as a Blaster Mega if that ship is doing the same. That's what i'm trying to tell you.
There are no good solo BS any more because of how BS tracking, webs ect ect have been nerfed making them useless vs smaller ships, BS are just way to vulnerable against way to many ships to be used solo.
Originally by: Electric Universe Amarr BS'es with Pulses should not be good in small scale PVP. They should be good in large fleet PVP gangs.
Well your out of luck then because you cannot nerf lasers tracking to the point that they will be poor in blaster range with webs available.
Originally by: Electric Universe And so you know. The ONLY reason there are so much whining about Large Blasters is because Amarr BS'es with Lasers (Pulses) are way to good atm. If Lasers haven't been so good at where Blasters are good, then there wouldn't be any of this epic whining on the forum about Large Blasters.
I do not agree with you tbh as that is a over simplification of the true problem.
Ppl complain about BS blasters because they are poor in gang pvp compared to lasers, while also being poor at being the "solo pvp ship" they are supposed to be good at, simply because pretty much every ship in the classes below them can evade and or easily tank/tackle them.
WTF kind of so called "solo ship" is either worthless cos it cannot tackle/hold or can be easily tackled held or killed by every other ship in the game apart from a few in its own class/size?.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.28 20:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Electric Universe
A Blaster Mega is still a very good solo / small gang PVP ship. I know many players that are using a Blaster Mega for solo / small PVP works today, but some of them are doing it with some alts that are scouting for them, so they know what they can come over.
I do not know anybody who solo's in a mega anymore because there are hacs, BC and recons ect that are much better solo ships and have a much greater target selection.
Originally by: Electric Universe In small gangs from 1 up to 4 players you can make a Laser BS to feel it that their tracking is poor in close range if they get a tracking nerf.
1 is not a small gang it is solo so read above.
From 2-4 their are enough webs available to make tracking unimportant.
Originally by: Electric Universe You don't agree, but sorry to inform you, but that is the true fact. Because Large Blasters it self are very fine as it is now.
They are useless against ships smaller than a BS making them useless for solo work as most ships in eve can kite and tackle or kill the ships that use them.
Its you that is looking at things too narrowly and without understanding the reality of available pvp for BS on TQ, im not going to waste my time arguing with somebody who thinks that solo BS pvp is regularly available on TQ as you are so out of touch its a joke.
Step back take a breath and look around because reality seems to have passed you by.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.29 07:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 29/05/2009 07:38:00
Originally by: Electric Universe
Doesn't matter. Because solo PVP exist today, then the Amarr BS'es should be poor at that thing, while a Blaster Mega should be very good at that.
All BS are poor at solo cos they cannot catch and kill anything apart from other BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe As NightmareX told earlier.....
You are NightmareX stop pretending you are not your already telling so many lies it makes you look even more foolish than usual.
Originally by: Electric Universe Nice way of ignoring the facts i said earlier about the other weapon systems that need to be boosted / changed to if Blasters gets a boost.
I think you should think about that to before you scream BOOST BLASTERS.
I ignored it because it was a stupid statment.
If tracking ect needs fixing and to do so you need to adjust all 4 systems then you adjust all 4 systems. Slapping a pointless tracking nerf that does nothing to change TQ pvp and only satisfies ppl who wanna make 1 v 1 graphs on eft is pointless.
All you and you main have done in this topic is repeat the same worthless rubbish over and over again and now you yet again resort to lying about who you are as well as the sorts of available pvp on TQ.
Just go away pls unless you can start telling the truth about yourself and TQ pvp.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.29 08:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 29/05/2009 08:06:01
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe me and my brother NightmareX.........
This is one of the reasons, no one will take you seriously. You take us for fools, dear sir.
Blasters do need a buff, as do ACs, I've seen the stats and used blasters in PvP on TQ, so have seen the issues. It's not if, it's now purely when tbh.
You in the same category as Bellum, so i know what you want back by such a boost, aka your ultimate instakill machine.
It wont be a insta kill machine cos cruisers ect can use longer range to easily tank blasters just like they use close range to tank lasers.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber Only because you want your instakill machine back. And who is the fool here now when you don't take those things over seriously as i told?.
Did you select the wrong alt nightmare or are you losing the argument so bad you need even more alts to support yourself?...gonna pretend to be a noob again or summat else this time.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.29 08:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Cruisers die to Blaster Mega's pretty easily already. And you want them to die even easier?. Get real.
Not when a smart pilot flies them they do not.
Originally by: Electric Universe No it's not an alt to NightmareX. How many times do i have told you that. It's an alt of me.
Hurray, now you found out who that alt belongs to, finally. And me + NightmareX is not the same person anylonger. They was the same person the the beginning until i got the character.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=69
A lie within a lie...your both nightmarex and everybody knows it.
Or are you going to say you do not know him, your his buddy, your his brother ect ect again........all in the same thead...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.05.31 20:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 31/05/2009 20:09:38
Originally by: isdisco3
I agree that there are problems with t2 ammunition, but see that as a separate issue. And the hyperion does not do 20% more dps up to 12km, its optimal is 2.5km as I recall so by 12km it would be doing something around 1/3 of its maximum dps (around 300 with just turrets).
You recall wrong as void ammo gives 6.8km optimal and 6.3 falloff.
And with 3 mag stabs it does 1084 turret dmg out to 6.8km and 662 dps at 12km.
The 3 x HS abaddon (with faction MF) does 916 turret dps out to 15km and from 20ish km it drops to 730 turret dps and switches to scorch to continue to do 730 turret dps out to 45km.
PS: Do not use void.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.01 18:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Sorry but no. Unless its domi. Most RR ships (especially megas and armas which make majority of rr fleets) dont have enough CPU to put active hardeners. thats why people opt for faction EANMs or even ANPs. And yeh its based on our RR fleets which we use hmm... the most often of all larger alliances in game?
RR domis and phoons can fit active hardeners, while the only BS that can fully AND eanm/plate/dcu and fit full mwd/tackle/dmg mods and a injector is the abaddon.
Just how perfect can one ship be ffs?.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.01 19:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 01/06/2009 19:44:09
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Perfect? Tro to fit rr on it = you lose guns.
And you think thats a big loss considering all the other standard RR ships use only 7 high slots for dmg?.
3 x HS RR geddon = 855 turret dps.
3 x HS abaddon = 802 turret dps.
So -53 RAW turret DPS in exchange for 34000+ more ehp and fastansitc resistance coverage.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Try to fire and use rep = your cap vanishes.
All RR BS are cap dependant and use injectors and a abaddon pilot with good skills will run out of 800 charges before he runs out of cap even with his guns + RR running constantly.
At least they do not need to be at 5km from each target like the mega so no choice between a reduction in dps or a mwd burn/RR/turret fire....now thats high cap usage.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Maybe in your dream world its perfect but when people actually use it its not that shiny.
Its not a dream as i have used it and i have loved it a lot more than i liked any of the megas or geddons i have flown.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.02 08:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 02/06/2009 08:16:40
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
34k ehp and you die before you get even RR help. Mate fly a bit in RR gangs before you try to tell how "awesome" one ship is.
34K MORE EHP than the geddon, MATE learn to read before you try to "disect" others posts.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire 3x sink on aba + 2x eanm + dc = 1 slot for plate left. 1 plate = you die before people can lock you and rr cycles completes.
And yet it has more.... 30000-35000 MORE EHP with that setup than pretty much any of the other standard RR BS.....
So basically get a clue pal cos if the abaddon does not have enough EHP to be good at RR gangs then no ship does as the abaddon even with the setup above has the more EHP than most of the other RR BS.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire You are both ignorant and lack RR gameplay knowledge.
You are the one thats ignorant and lacks knowledge as you clearly proved above by claiming that the abaddon setup above that has one of the highest ehp tanks of any RR BS would some how melt faster than ships with lower EHP.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire I shown (1-3 pages earlier) link to our KB from typical RR engagement.
You showed a link that suited your purposes nothing more, trying to claim anything else is a exhageration. I can find plenty of links that have megas using rails in RR gangs.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Megas and geddons/abas deal more-less the same DPS on targets so the "range advantage" means almost nothing.
Having a large available range for a tiny dps loss is a huge advantage and anybody who claims other wise is a idiot.
Oh and if that engagment was at 5km as you seem to claim then it shows how OP lasers are simply because at that range the top dmg dealers should be virtually 100% the blaster ships as that is where they should be melting stuff but its not even close to 100%.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire ESPECIALLY when you engage another RR gang because they all will be within 5km of each other.
WTF are you smoking?, a RR gangs ships only need to be near/within rr range of each other not the hostile gang you total muppet.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Too bad. Ill take geddon over aba into RR gang anyday. ONLY exception is EHP bait (someone has to decloak first...)
Well as you have shown above you are rather cluless so its not supprising tbh.
The abaddon gets only -53 RAW turret dps for +34000 more ehp and fantastic all over resistance coverage and you wanna still fly the geddon?.
Stop posting.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.02 10:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 02/06/2009 10:56:55
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Barely 25k more than dual plated geddon.
25k more is 25k more muppet and considering the dual plated geddon has just over 100k in total that works out to 20-25% more EHP.
SO WHY CLAIM THE ABADDON WOULD GET MELTED BEFORE IT GOT RR'd CLOWN?.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Loses almost 170dps in exchange (when using 7 guns).
a 3 x hs abaddon does 802 turret dmg. a 3 x hs geddon does 855 turret dmg.
Back to school jr.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Reading comprehension ftw, aye? I said that 1 plated aba has not enough EHP to survive sometimes, yes? Total 134k ehp. Yet i managed to lose 131k ehp geddon multiple times by being just 2 salvoed. So yes 134k ehp is nothing ESPECIALLY when you decloak first. Unless you talk about using 10 vs 10 rr gangs, then be my guest. We use em in 50 vs 80-100 fights quite often.
Im talking about cold hard FACTS and the abaddon gets pretty much the best spread of EHP and dps of any RR ship.
And if its gonna get melted cos of alpha then all the others are as well ffs thats called a "comparison"....
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Because having 0,5x tracking modifier compared to blasters is godlike.
So this is where you tell us that when your in your 50 vs 50 uber rr gangs that tracking is significant?.
Use the search option on the market and look under "webs".
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ill ignore personal attacks (seems thats all you can do).
Sarcasm and insults about having flown in rr gangs = personal attacks in my book so as soon as you stop using them il stop replying to them pal.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire You ever flown rr gang before?
Flown them and led them, i even FC'd many varied gangs while a member of tri and was top killer on the alliance monthly KB while i was with them...and i do not remember you FCing any gangs while i was in tri you always mouthed off about things after the fact but never had the balls to step up and take responsability by leading.
Hindsight and armchair quarterbacking doth not a leader make pal.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Start at 20km from each other. AMARR RULEZZZZ. Now we start firing on primary and start approaching (can be even with MWD) primary. So called "regrouping on enemy". Have you ever heard of it? I guess no.
Basic paper tiger mistake number 1.
Ive heard of it although if the fight is spread out over 20km you should really make sure your gang is regrouped into RR range first...or are you saying that your always in perfect position and RR range?...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Anyways after you pass 20km and regrouped on primary (secondary, tertiary, whatever) you are 1-5km from all enemy ships (because they kept RR range).
Basic paper tiger mistake number 2.
Wrong RR range = 8.4km this means that in a 3D enviroment a hostile ship can be as far as 13km away from some of your ships.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Suddenly almost all ships (your and enemy) are 5 km from each other. Blasters have highest DPS in 1-5km range, yes? Owait so they are actually useful.
Basic paper tiger mistake number 3.
SUDDENLY?????.....WTF has the word "SUDDENLY" got to do with moving 50 slow ass plated to hell BS at least 20km if not further from a dead stop maybe or maybe not using a mwd while staying in RR range?.
Theres nothing "suddenly" about it pal.
20km at mwd speed for a plated BS + acceleration = 40 seconds, so 4-5 mwd cycles. 20km at non mwd speed for a plated BS doin around 100ms = 3 mins.
Not including needing to burn into RR range in a lot of instances.
The mega only gets 100ish more turret dps than the abaddon at 4.5km while at the 20-25km range the abaddon is still doing 730+ turret dps and the mega is doing 300 max.
Back to school jr.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.02 10:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Owait so they are actually useful. So learn to play before you post.
Did i say the mega was TOTALLY useless (it or blasters do need adjusting though)?...did i even bring the mega up???.
I said the abaddon was one of if not the best RR ship and you went on a stupid emo rant, and now you realised you made a fool of your self your trying to twist the discussion to summat its not.
Go away.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.02 12:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 02/06/2009 12:04:57
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Those are your words. And i said already: if it goes for rr it loses DPS.
It starts with 8 guns and most of the others start with 7 so it can afford to lose one and still almast math the geddons turret dps.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire It has capacitor issues (how long can you perma rr and fire before your cap dies and you are useless?).
Until it runs out of cap 800's just like the mega and other RR ships that need cap to fire.
Although not needing to chhose between reduced dmg or mwding into range of targets is a big help.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 07:37:00 -
[18]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 08:23:45
A tracking and dmg buff to blasters is a great idea.
Increasing the CPU on the mega so it can fit a tank that is worth using at the ranges blaster ships are forced to is a good idea as well.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 11:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 11:58:03
The fact is that when one ship (tach II apoc) can be sniper fitted so its optimal is virtually at max range and its dps is also way above ALL other snipers as well as having one of the best base tracking figures on its turrets to go with that DPS and range advantage says clearly things are out of balance.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: FU22
Warning Mega Post:
Ok imo the weapons need to work as the following: Lasers: -Most range (Which it is now) -Most cap requirement (which it is now) -Good damage -Average tracking
In other words the 2 most important attributes of range and damage they get:
The best by far in range. And apart from a tiny window at 4-6km (that they still do very very high dmg) they also do the highest dps from like 6-55km?.
But the 2 least important cap (cos of injectors) and tracking (cos of webs) they have very small down sides.
Originally by: FU22 Blasters: -Least range -About quarter/half cap requirement as lasers -Insane damage (like it is now) -A bit extra tracking to lasers but NO MORE
1. How do you consider blasters to have insane dmg?, i think the only insane thing here is you if you do. 2. They need a LOT more tracking than lasers.
Originally by: FU22 Projectiles: -Less range then lasers but a bit more then blasters -No cap requirement except t2 ammo -Less damage then lasers/blasters but a bit extra then missles -Good tracking
So less range than lasers AND less dmg?.....
Let me guess you fly amarr?.............
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:00:00 -
[21]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 19:03:53
Originally by: Nostredeus Morphius
To summarise
Lasers - 5% to 7.5% trackign decrease (general consensus)
Worthless as in gang combat webs make tracking unimportant.
Originally by: Nostredeus Morphius Blasters - 7.5% to 10% tracking increase (general consensus)
Also pretty worthless for the same reason as the laser tracking nerf would be, unless you want to make blasters into solo ships again and then tracking needs to be increased by a crap tonne more than 10%.
Originally by: Nostredeus Morphius Auto cannons - 20% to 25% fall off increase 10% damage increase (general consensus with some personal opinion)
Mayber but i have not done the math.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 19:16:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
I just have to LOL hard to that.
Oh wow, so how is a tracking boost to Blasters important then?. Gang combat makes tracking unimportants as you say when the targets gets webbed.
So how will a tracking boost to Blasters help then?.
If a tracking boost to Blasters will help there, then for sure a tracking nerf to Lasers will also help.
You may have loled but you still edited out the part that explained it....
Maybe if you had left the bit you just deliberatly edited out you would understand.......
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 19:28:42
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: bubbly bird Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 19:16:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
I just have to LOL hard to that.
Oh wow, so how is a tracking boost to Blasters important then?. Gang combat makes tracking unimportants as you say when the targets gets webbed.
So how will a tracking boost to Blasters help then?.
If a tracking boost to Blasters will help there, then for sure a tracking nerf to Lasers will also help.
You may have loled but you still edited out the part that explained it....
Maybe if you had left the bit you just deliberatly edited out you would understand.......
Still, dreaming for a tracking boost more than 10 max is never going to happen. You know exactly what will happen if Blasters gets more than 10% tracking boost.
Your a dumb monkey if you don't see what will happens then.
But like i said, i'm in for a 7.5% tracking boost as long it doesn't make it into easy mode when it's about killing frigs and cruisers again.
Why post % figures and make claims of what should and should not be done without actually testing their effectivness first.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Uhm, LOL, your doing something very wrong then.
No im not you just have no idea how these systems operate.
Originally by: Electric Universe You still have to work really hard to be able to kill a frig with Large Blasters. It's very possible to kill a frig in a BS with Large Blasters ONLy if your smart enough.
Not if the frig pilot has a brain its not and you would know that if you had ever flown a blaster BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe RING RING, the bell is ringing. The web nerf was to prevent ships with Large Blasters or other ships with Large guns to kill frigs and eventually cruisers easily.
RING RING, you and others in this thread and others have gone on and on about how blaster ships are supposed to be solo ships and then you say they should suck against virtually every ship in the game that is smaller than they are.
MAKE UP YOUR MIND YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH.
Originally by: Electric Universe And now your going omg omg i can't kill a frig easily in a BS with Large Blasters. OMG GIVE THE BLASTERS A BOOST.
Personally i could not give a toss about blasters easily hitting frigs id rather see blaster BS being boosted so they are more effective in the only sort of combat BS really have available to them...GANG COMBAT.
But you tend dribble on about blaster BS supposedly being solo ships and if that is the case they should be made to be effective solo shoips and have the ability to destroy small ships reasonably easily in their optimal.
SO AS I SAID MAKE UP YOUR MIND ARE YOU GONNA BOOST THEM TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE SOLO SHIPS OR MORE EFFECTIVE GANG SHIPS.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:43:00 -
[25]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 03/06/2009 19:46:52
Originally by: Electric Universe
Many that use Large Blasters every day that i know about doesn't cry that they have problems to kill frigs and cruisers or other ship types. They just say it's much harder to kill frigs and cruisers, but are still killing them, because they know how to do it right.
A easy claim to make but i have yet to see anybody jump into this thread to back you up with a recient and long list of kills against frigs ect while they were flying solo blaster BS.....
Myself along with others are getting tired of your constant "i know ppl who know ppl who iz uber blaster BS solo pvpers so every thing is fine and anybody who disagrees suxors at pvp" bull.
So to coin a popular EVE phrase "PROOF OR STFU".
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Electric Universe
To the first thing.
I for sure knows how they work. I know Large Blasters isn't supposed toi kill frigs and cruisers as easily as you want them to kill them.
I already told you i think that solo pvp is dead for BS so i do not care if BS blasters can easily hit frigs.
Originally by: Electric Universe Alright, the player is smarter than you. And that means he knows 100% how to kill you and you will have poroblems then. And because your in a BS, your not supposed to kill him so easily anyways.
Any players in whatever ship that is smarter than you can kill your Blaster Mega with no problems.
Its not about being smarter its about basic piloting knowledge and the ability of the ships allowing frigs to easily tackle and hold a BS while remaning immune.
Originally by: Electric Universe And then you goes bawwwww Solo PVP doesn't exist today if we tell thast a Megathron is a good Solo / Small PVP ship. So is there a point to say it's a good solo pvp ships if you moan bawwww solo PVP is dead all the time?.
Thats the point, solo B pvp is dead so the ships that were used for it need adjusting to be better at what is now avaiulable for them.
Do try to keep up.
Originally by: Electric Universe In gang combat where we use Blaster megas today in RR gangs are very very effective if a skilled and experienced player are piloting that Blaster Mega. it have been shown billions of times and still you want the Blasters to be even better.
Just because they CAN be useful does not mean things are balanced.
Originally by: Electric Universe Deva posted several links to the Tri kb where he did shows how effective an RR gang with Blaster Megas and RR geddons can be.
And he is also one of the ppl asking for buffs/adjustment.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Electric Universe
My proof is: Ask Darknesss or Leilani Solaris for example if you have the balls to get the proof smashed into your face yourself.
I'm sure they will teach you how to use Blasters right if they have the time
A easy claim to make but i have yet to see anybody jump into this thread to back you up with a recient and long list of kills against frigs ect while they were flying solo blaster BS.....
Myself along with others are getting tired of your constant "i know ppl who know ppl who iz uber blaster BS solo pvpers so every thing is fine and anybody who disagrees suxors at pvp" bull.
So to coin a popular EVE phrase "PROOF OR STFU".
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 20:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Electric Universe
It doesn't matter what you have to say. Want a bigger tracking boost than 10% is asking for one thing. And it goes totally against the web nerf.
Then the facts need to be used to force ccp to make a change.
If solo BS should be crap against every ship smaller than other BS the ships/systems/fits previously designated "solo pvp BS" need a full work over to bring them up to date for the kinds of pvp avaiulable to BS now.
Amaar BS were given the best range by far, best dps at every range apart from 0-6km (and even their they hit bloody hard), good tracking and the very best gang tanks in the game MAKING THEM THE UBER GANG PVP BS IN EVE.
Blaster BS were supposed to be solo uber pwnage ships but then CCP in its infinite wisdom decided to make BS suck at solo by gimping speed, webs and a few other things that coupled with populartion density killed solo BS pvp.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.03 20:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Amarr BS'es hit bloody hard?, HAH, then you haven't tried to shoot an omni tanked Tempest. That Tempest tanks a 1200+ DPS gank geddon as long the Tempest have cap boosters with one LAR II fitted.
I was about to ask wtf 1 v 1 sissi active tank pvp had to do with anything but then i realized who i was talking to.....
Originally by: Electric Universe A 2x damage mods Blaster Mega does more DPS after resists than both a 3x damage mods geddon and Abaddon does to.
Not against the abaddons tank it does'nt, in fact the 3 x hs abaddon does more dmg on the mega than a 3 x mag stab mega does against the abaddon after resists.
Originally by: Electric Universe Yes Blaster BS'es are supposed to be a good solo ship today, and it's still that.
Rubbish it can be kited and tackled or kited and killed by almost every ship in the classes smaller than BS.
So good at solo my arse.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 09:38:00 -
[30]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 09:41:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
Dude, was i talking about sisi here?. We have something called TQ.
And a 1200+ DPS gank geddon on Sisi wont hit a Tempest any harder if it was a 1200+ DPS gank geddon on TQ. 1200 DPS is still 1200 DPS.
The sort of fight you are talking about only happens on sissi.
Stop wasting ppls time with your worthless 1 v 1 sissi data.
Originally by: Electric Universe Yes the Abaddon have higher resists than the Megathron in total. And if you put in 50-60 mill isk extra into the Megathron instead of paying that much extra to get an Abaddon, you will do around 1% more DPS than the Abaddon after resists then.
WRONG.
Even if you use faction ANP's it will still have less, but even if it did have 1% more we are talking about the range being in blaster optimal so the dps differance should be at least 10-20%.
Originally by: Electric Universe LOL, no matter what you say, if you just want it and want to risk to lose your ship, then a Blaster Mega is still a good solo PVP ship even when you risk to lose the ship sometimes.
Get a frigging clue you fool a solo ship that is either useless or vulnerable to almost EVERY ship smaller than it is a useless solo ship.
Originally by: Electric Universe EDIT: LOL, NightmareX told me that he have spend 400 mill isk more into his Navy Mega.
See here, this is his new setup: LINK.
Yes, that's with his skills. With all skills on level 5, he will have 81.7% EM resist just to tell you how much better the rest of the resists gets to.
He doesn't have a slave set right now, that's why you only see 42k armor. With a LG slave set, he will get 286k EHP.
YOU ARE NIGHMAREX AND YOU HAVE NEVER USED THAT BLOODY MEGA EVER ON TQ.
ALL YOU HAVE EVER DONE IS MAKE UP BULLSH*T EXCUSES FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS ABOUT YOUR SEC STATUS WHEN THE TRUTH IS YOU JUST GET THE DEVS TO MOVE IT TO FD- ON SISSI AFTER EVERY MIRROR, BECAUSE YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTS AND IT WILL GET REPLACED AFTER EVERY MIRROR IF IT DOES GET POPPED.
THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAD AND WE DO NOT NEED YOUR LIES AND PATHETICALLY OBVIOUS DENIALS IN IT SO GO AWAY.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 09:56:00 -
[31]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 10:06:07
Originally by: Nostredeus Morphius
They are all related so their changes should be related, the tracking decrease on the lasers is not for the lasers as much as it is for the other two weapon systems, at the moment lasers (as someone correctly said) are best from about 8km+ if auto canons are to dictate range to lasers they need to do that safely within that 8km therefore the lasers could acceptably loose a bit of tracking and it wouldn't effect them too much.
And in a game where 1 v 1 pvp is the rule and webs do not exist that idea will be fine....now how do you intend to deal with the issue in EVE?.
Sorry bud but it is you who is the one with the limited understanding if you are trying to balance systems around a 1 v 1 modal.
I did a test in another thread that reduced the tracking of BS pulse lasers so much they tracked the same as a BLASTER DREADNAUGHT IN SIEGE (about 6 pilgrim fitted TD's hitting a abaddon using scorch and low tracking skill does it), they still hit a webbed BS at uber close range easily.
Originally by: Nostredeus Morphius Also you say you haven't done the maths, seeing as the weapon systems are linked you clearly have little to no data to work from and therefore scientifically speaking you are not likely to be right in your opinion.
I said i had not done the math on the AC, i had done it on blasters and lasers.
But then i know you did no researh at all as i can see clearly from your alleged findings about lasers and blasters.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 12:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: To mare
Originally by: bubbly bird
I did a test in another thread that reduced the tracking of BS pulse lasers so much they tracked the same as a BLASTER DREADNAUGHT IN SIEGE (about 6 pilgrim fitted TD's hitting a abaddon using scorch and low tracking skill does it), they still hit a webbed BS at uber close range easily.
can you explain what this should mean? maybe that pulse with tracking disruptor on them are better than blaster at the same close range?
not a flame i dont get it really
Its fine im happy to explain.
The premise was that BS lasers were virtually as good as BS blasters at blasters 4.5km optimal while lasers also having a vast range and dps advantage from out to 45+km that blasters do not get.
Now to solve this ppl wanted to make lasers worse at close range, that idea in of itself has some merit but doing so is more than a little problematic due to the reality of BS pvp.
One suggestion was to nerf BS laser tracking.
Now on paper or on a EFT graph showing a 1 v 1 BS fight the solution looked quite reasonable BUT when applied to TQ pvp and you factor in that multiple ships will be involved along with the target ship (a BS in this case) will have multiple webs on it as well as its orbit/transversal being utterly subjective to a single ship to be quite honest tracking becomes irrelavant even at the closest of ranges.
So to point this out i fitted a abaddon with T2 pulse loaded with scorch, i then fired 6 max shilled and pilgrim fitted tracking disruptors loaded with tracking speed scripts at it and reduced the abaddon pilots turret tracking skill (motion prediction) to 0.
The result was that the abaddon turrets had a tracking speed of 0.00207 (a good skilled pilot with MF gets 0.04219 btw) that is about as bad as you can gimp tracking and close to a sieged dreads tracking.
Then i fitted a standard BS with the usual plates and mwd gang setup and set it to orbit the abaddon with full transversal i then applied multiple webs on the target to simulate a gang combat effect, i slso left the abaddon stationary and made no attempt to reduce the transversal effect through piloting ect.
The result was that even with such awsomly butchered tracking and in the worst possable condition as well as the target ship having a constant and perfect transversal orbit (a thing impossable on TQ as you well know) the abaddon was still hitting the target for significan dmg inside blaster optimal.
So for those who missed the point:
If after having its tracking screwed over down to 0.00207 while a good skilled pilot with MF gets 0.04219(im not sre what % that is but its a lot) a pulse BS can still hit at uber close range, how is a rather pitiful 7.5%-10% tracking nerf to pulse gonna do anything worthwhile?.
I hope this clarifies things a little.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 12:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Amarr & Lasers - Remove capacitor bonus from all their ships. - Give their ships other bonuses; armor resistance, armor bonus, falloff, tracking, something clever for armor race. - Increase damage of lasers to compensate for the removed capacitor bonus.
Why give the race that has the best available range buffer it can use as a tank even more bonuses to armour tanking?.
If any race deserves to have bonuses to armour its gallente as they are the race that has a weapon system that forces it into the optimal/high dmg range of ALL the other weapon systems, while lasers can sit back at range.
The fact that blaster ships need to move around the field to be within their high dps range also causes cap issues due to mwding so maybe a look at that could not hurt.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: To mare
i dont see that much of a problem here if the target BS is under multiple web it mean its almost stationary so yeah even with low tracking the abaddon still hit his target and so will do the mega. under the same conditions the mega and abaddon will do almost the same turret dps (the mega win because of drones) but you have to consider that both the ships have the same 25% damage bonus but the abbaddon have 1 more turret, im not speaking of tracking because following your example both of the ships are nearly immobile, but if both of them was moving the mega would win even with current TQ stats, now add a tracking nerf to laser and is even more easy for the mega.
You are missing the point.
The fact is that BS are gang ships and as such multiple webs will always be available and used on a target ship.
Do not think that i miss the fact that at blaster optimal in a abaddon vs mega 1 v 1 fight with max transversal orbit speeds the mega stands a reasonable chance of beating the abaddon but the fact is that those fights only happen in 3 places.
1. On paper. 2. On EFT graph. 3. On sissi in a BF area in a 1 v 1 fight.
You cannot balance BS using 1 v 1 stats because CCP has deliberatly made solo BS pvp a non issue with the web nerfs amoung other things.
Originally by: To mare about long range weapons i think rails and beams are well balanced (tachyons are awesome but i got no great problem with them they have theyr drawbacks), artillery is another story and need to be looked deeply.
Tachyons on a apoc have the highest dps of all sniper turrets, the highest tracking of all sniper turrets, virtually max range optimal, no need to reload and can be used on a cap stable ship fit...because of the apocs bonuses they are one of the most OP turrets in the game.
But your right about arties they suck and need work.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Originally by: Seishi Maru
run the nubmer before throwing things off. A tempest liek that at 170 km would have MORE damage than a megatron at same range. And at 220 km would be so far ahead of the magatrron that woudl not even be funny.
And still well behind the apoc. I think that tells a lot tbh...
someoen must be the best sniper. Nothign wrogn with that.
The problem is not that its the best the problem is that it is the best by WAY WAY WAY to big a margin.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 15:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Electric Universe
1st thing. Where did i say what kind of PVP i was doing there?. I was only saying that IF a 1200+ DPS geddon was shooting me on Sisi, it woudn't do more damage to my Tempest on TQ. It would still do 1200 DPS no matter what. And the resists to my Tempest is 100% the same on both TQ and Sisi.
I think you should start reading what i'm saying at least 5 times from now on before you post anything.
Maybe if you posted things that had any bearing on the topic at hand it would be easier because pointing out that a ship that can active tank 1200dps from another shiop is a worthless and pointless comment to make.
Originally by: Electric Universe Rant about a faction fitted navy mega
Nobody is interested in your silly faction fitted navy mega as this is about a normal mega with a T2 fit max.
Originally by: Electric Universe 3rd thing. Solo PVP are still doable no matter what you say. You just have to use your brain a bit, like you can't.
The last time you ranted on about solo BS pvp being alive and well you tried dropping farjungs name out in the hopes it would add wieght to your arguments, you also tried speaking on behalf of your alliance at the time.
Farjung posted later in the thread and told you quite clearly how wrong you were and he also explained why so did a top member of your alliance so unless you want another embarressing spanking perhaps you shouls stick to posting about your XP in solo of gang pvp flying a blaster BS.
But i suppose if you limited yourself to doing that you would have to stop posating altogether...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 16:06:00 -
[37]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 16:08:36
Originally by: Rhadamantine
@ Electric Universe: Show me the math then please, because atm it just looks like opinion.
People go out of their way to kill anything out of the norm, so a Navy mega would be primary on TQ for sure. So I'm not sure and extra 3k hp over the abaddon, would be worth the cost. (if your figures are correct)
You have such a narrow window with blasters though, surely the range amarr ships have, would make them a better choice?
Edited for spelling.
Here is some exact math and the workings out for you if you need anything explaining by all means please ask.
THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS.
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
The ABADDON has 75.7% thermal resists and 71.9 kinetic resists.
300 thermal drone dmg from T2 gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS. 482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS. 394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS OUT TO 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
The mega has 73.4 em resists and 65.5 thermal resists.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS. 465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS. 336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS OUT TO 15KM vs the MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS OUT TO 15KM vs THE MEGA. THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS OUT TO 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
The mega actually hits the abaddon for 3% LESS DPS than the abaddon hits it, and for 300% less range, and the mega has a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
PS: i sent you a ingame mail about the nightmareX/electric situation, you will understand when you read it.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 17:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rhadamantine
There maybe situation where a faction ship might not be primary, but my opinion is, it would be most times. It's just human nature.
You stated the Mega has slightly more dps than the abaddon, so using the Navy mega gets you 3k more HP. That seems an awful lot of isk to throw at a ship for and extra 3k hp.
500 or so UNINSURABLE mil for the same dps as a normal mega and only 3k more ehp than a abaddon....
Originally by: Rhadamantine As far as your play style is concerned, I'll have to take your word for it, as I don't see any info backing it up.
His playstyle is just another lie as electric his alts and nightmareX have never flown a mega on TQ, or if they have they were transporting it as none of them has a single link to any KB with a kill or a loss involving them flying a blaster MEGA or any blaster BS for that matter...
Originally by: Rhadamantine Edit: After reading the in-game mail, it makes abit more sense if true.
It is, and its been proven several times. Believe me if you watch the posting long enough its totally obvious.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 17:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: 1600 RT
Originally by: Electric Universe
stuff
comparing a navy mega VS a abaddon isnt fair
start using non faction ships and maybe you have a point
Not only a faction ship but he is also using these as tanking modules if you did not notice...3x Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 17:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Electric Universe
So again, lets do some calculations on the NORMAL Mega's stats.
Why not use a normal mega fit then instead of spending 500 mil on a ship with barely more ehp than the abaddon and 300% less range?...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 18:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Electric Universe
My points still stands. A 2x damage mods Blaster Mega are doing slightly more DPS than the Abaddon with 3x damage mods if we use the setup i posted here. So i'm still right about the DPS.
You are manipulating numbers and its obvious.
1. The navy megas resistances and tank you showed and used with 2 mag stabs cannot be achieved on a normal mega with 2 mag stabs.
BECAUSE THE NORMAL MEGA ONLY HAS 7 LOW SLOTS.
So what are you going to drop to get them on a normal mega?...the plate?, the DCU?, a dmg mod?...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:02:00 -
[42]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 19:03:48
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: bubbly bird
Originally by: Electric Universe
My points still stands. A 2x damage mods Blaster Mega are doing slightly more DPS than the Abaddon with 3x damage mods if we use the setup i posted here. So i'm still right about the DPS.
You are manipulating numbers and its obvious.
1. The navy megas resistances and tank you showed and used with 2 mag stabs cannot be achieved on a normal mega with 2 mag stabs.
BECAUSE THE NORMAL MEGA ONLY HAS 7 LOW SLOTS.
So what are you going to drop to get them on a normal mega?...the plate?, the DCU?, a dmg mod?...
Dude, read this post again: Link.
Ok so in that particular post you have a normal mega with dual faction mods in a supposed RR gang setup with only 106k EHP?.
And this dso called the differance in dps after resists you mention?..
The mega does 13,547 damage according to you. The abad does 13,418 damage according to you.
So with faction mods ect by your own calculations the faction mega does only 1% more turret dmg than the abaddon after resists IN THE BLASTERS OPTIMAL...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes NightmareX was in that fight to in a Tempest. He got 25 new kills in that fight.
Of course you were in a tempest, you have never flown a mega in TQ combat ever....
Originally by: Electric Universe 106k EHP is good enough to be able to getting RR'ed and deagro and jump out and still be alive.
That all depends on how big the fight is but even so just how much dps after resists does a mega put out if it does that?....oh that right 0.
The link with the RR gang combat kill/loss mails was a interesting read though especially when you see that over all the most BS lost were megas by a massive margin compared to ALL the other BS.
29 megas used 17 lost. 46 other BS used but only 18 lost.
Kinda shows how bad they suck and how them needing to burn UBER close to the hostile gang means they get primaried a lot, especially when you consider that the domi's and scorps will be almost insta primaries cos of their ewar and nuet capabilities.
You may think that vid and KB link show megas to be good but what it really shows is how vulnerable they are and how much they die compared to ALL the other BS in that sort of combat.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I can't even use a Tempest dude. NightmareX can, but he's not me.
Originally by: Electric Universe Yeah it all depemds, i agree on that, but the same thing applies for an Abaddon. But the size of RR gangs Tri are doing for example, then 106-115k EHP is good enough on a Blaster Mega.
Just how many lies do you need to tell and just how stupid are you?.
I mean its not like you do not have a link to that KB and do not have the ability to actually check the fits on the tri megathron losses ffs.
Thewt were using fits that had 138,000-150,000 EHP...how many times do you need to be told to check your facts before you start talking your crap?.
Originally by: Electric Universe The link with the RR gang combat kill/loss mails your talking about isn't that intresting tbh. The reason you see more Megas that are lost is simply because they are the most popular BS to use.
29 megas used 17 lost. 46 other BS used but only 18 lost.
46 > 29...
Originally by: Electric Universe And i don't go after how many Megas have been killed or what. All that matter is how good the Megathron is for me and how i PVP.
Yes i choose the best ship for what kind of PVP ops i'm gonna do.
Then why were you flying a tempest and why have you NEVER EVER flown a mega in TQ pvp?...
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I can't even use a Tempest dude. NightmareX can, but he's not me.
Originally by: Electric Universe Yeah it all depemds, i agree on that, but the same thing applies for an Abaddon. But the size of RR gangs Tri are doing for example, then 106-115k EHP is good enough on a Blaster Mega.
Just how many lies do you need to tell and just how stupid are you?.
I mean its not like you do not have a link to that KB and do not have the ability to actually check the fits on the tri megathron losses ffs.
Most were using RR standard fits that had 138,000-150,000 EHP (a couple had very wierd fits tbh 2 X TRACKING ENHANCERS AND A CPU MODULE ON A RR BLASTER SHIP?...)...how many times do you need to be told to check your facts before you start talking your crap?.
Originally by: Electric Universe The link with the RR gang combat kill/loss mails your talking about isn't that intresting tbh. The reason you see more Megas that are lost is simply because they are the most popular BS to use.
29 megas used 17 lost. 46 other BS used but only 18 lost.
46 > 29...
Originally by: Electric Universe And i don't go after how many Megas have been killed or what. All that matter is how good the Megathron is for me and how i PVP.
Yes i choose the best ship for what kind of PVP ops i'm gonna do.
Then why were you flying a tempest and why have you NEVER EVER flown a mega in TQ pvp?...
PS: The next most used BS were laser BS and 7 were lost out of 22 on the field.
Blaster BS = almost 60% losses compared to the number of blaster ships used.
Laser BS = only 30% losses compared to the number of laser BS used.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:26:00 -
[46]
TRI had 14 blaster BS on the field they lost 5.
TRI had 13 laser BS on the field they lost 1.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:53:00 -
[47]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 20:53:30
Originally by: To mare
not really, even a geddon can be fitted for RR gang with 1 RR, mwd, heavy cap booster, ECCM and still pull out 950 dps with more than 100k EHP and the ability to hit up to 45km with scorch.
That makes its tanking stats roughly the same as the megas apart from the fact the mega has a 4.5km optimal with faction AM and a 11km optimal with null.
While the geddon has 15km with faction MF and 45km with scorch.
Originally by: To mare and no abaddon isnt OP it has cap issues and slow as hell but yes the numbers are quite impressive
All plated BS are as slow as hell and the RR abaddon runs out of cap boosters before its dry of cap, it does have a slightly smaller cargo bay though but can use a T2 large injector instead of a best named so gets a extra 800 for that.
So cap wise their really is not as much in it as you would think and speed wise ALL plated BS are slugs tbh.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 21:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: The Djego Actualy the numbers of Megas dieing compared to other BS in RR gangs is nothing special, everyone that fly one in a RR gang know the very simple reason. You are Primary. I am most of the time in a Gang of 6-10 BS in my Mega, for the simple reason that the Mega has a high Damage compared to his standard/substandard EHP(depending on how many Damagemods you use).
Also as a FC myself i know that from experiance megas will be close or be trying to get close to my gang so they are gaurenteed to be within the optimals of a large percentage if not all of my gangs ships. And like you say because they have crappy CPU the mega needs to choose between a ok tank or good dps.
While hostile abaddons can not only easily sit back outside of my blaster ships optimals but even with 3 HS fitted they still have great EHP and overall resistance coverage, so they tend to make poor choices for a primary target. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 21:22:00 -
[49]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 04/06/2009 21:23:47
Originally by: To mare
yes what i want to say is that laser are much superior to AC and blater and if the laser as a weapon system will be balanced with AC and blaster then even the ships+ weapon will be balanced. the main problem is that the weapons need balancing not the hulls
The problem lies in the fact that over the years CCP has gimped the crap out of everything apart from gank and tank, this coupled with population density has forced gangs to be larger and larger and as such the race with the best available DPS coverage and EHP is way ahead especially in the BS class.
Mini/AC BS were supposed to use speed but that is rather useless in gang pvp for BS.
And gallente/blaster BS were supposed to be good at solo but they nerfed webs and made it so every ship smaller than a BS can kite and kill or kite and hold them until support arrives.
So both of these abilities have been butchered over the last few years with one nerf or another and along with population density rising.
An entire rework/redesign is needed not just a useless "quick fix".
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 21:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Julie Thorne
Quote: That makes its tanking stats roughly the same as the megas apart from the fact the mega has a 4.5km optimal with faction AM and a 11km optimal with null.
And if you factor in the resists as well, the Mega has a pretty clear advantage against the Geddon in it's optimal (assuming you don't use a rare trihardened setup. Scorch is a seperate issue IMO (remove it's optimal bonus increase barrage and null range or at least triple the price of faction ammo - I don't really care.)
While some go on and on about resists i tend to go for raw numbers unless i really have to do a full comparison. I know that base armour resists are EM high but for what you lose you also gain against T2 ship fits and shield buffer tanks that are used a heck of a lot more tham ppl give them credit for.
So while some may howl about amaar needing more base dps due to dmg type and armour resists i just say you get it back in spades against other fits so take the rough with the smooth as nothing is absolutly perfect (although a few laser ships come close). |
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 21:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: To mare
yes im fully agree that ac and blaster need a buff but they need to keep they uniqueness and possibly not giving the OP stats that will need to be readressed via nerf later
One of the problems is that their uniqueness at the moment is at obsolite forms of pvp for BS because of the changes/nerfs imposed upon them and the game over the years.
Its hard to assign 3 or 4 distinct and unique abilities to each races BS when the game limits them to really only one form/style of combat.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.04 21:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Julie Thorne
Quote: While some go on and on about resists i tend to go for raw numbers unless i really have to do a full comparison. I know that base armour resists are EM high but for what you lose you also gain against T2 ship fits and shield buffer tanks that are used a heck of a lot more tham ppl give them credit for.
No offence but you just compared the RR Abby to the RR Mega. What's the problem with comparing the RR Geddon to the Mega???
I have no problem with you doing so at all my point about dmg types was intended to come over as more of a general look at all types of tanks used in eve and how some days you can be shooting at summat that resists your dmg well and some days you are shooting at summat you tear right through like its paper.
More of a some days your the pigeon and some days you are the statue kinda deal.
Unless you are a missile user of course but then they have their own short commings to contend with.
Apologies if it seemed like a accusation as that was not the intent at all.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 07:57:00 -
[53]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 05/06/2009 08:07:06
Originally by: Rhadamantine Any chance you could put your chars skill sheet up Electric? You could put it on http://eve-sheet.com/, it would lay to rest any questions or accusations for good.
Good idea although i doubt he will do it...
You know if somebody tells me that if they fit hardeners ect on a certain ship and it gives them 90% resists i get on eft or log in and check to see if they are telling the truth or lying.
You would think that a player making claims about experiance flying certain types of ships and them being his "favorites" would actually have the brains to know that ppl would check to see if it also was the truth or utter lies.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So because of those reasons, the Abaddon can go and die and never get back for my sake. I don't care about how the Abaddon's EFT stats is. All i care about is how the ships works ingame on TQ.
Kills or losses on BC for electric universe...0 IN ANY SHIP EVER ON TQ LET ALONE A BLASTER BS....
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/search.php
Oh and while we are on this subject introduced by electric....
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-NightmareX-kills.html/
Kills or losses on BC for NightmareX...0 ON TQ EVER IN A BLASTER BS....
LIES IT IS THEN....BUT WHO NEEDED TO CHECK TO KNOW THAT TBH... |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 08:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Originally by: To mare sniper setups need to be DDD proof and if they are double DDD proof is better or enjoy to see your whole fleet destroyed with 1-2hits
oh and GL fitting 8 tachyons on a apoc.
So please then, tell me when was the last time you've seen only one (or 2 for that matter) titans online in a single system. Unless you have your entire fleet set up to tank more than 2 doomsdays it doesn't really matter. It might work the first time, but after that you'll just keep eating them until most of your fleet dies. Again if you're tackled you die, and if not, well what are you still doing there. The 10 or so second animation on the doomsday gives you all the time you need to warp out before it kills you. Just have your effects on when titans are in system...
Oh and my EFT says 8 tachyons fit just fine.
Gotta go with budski on this one, in the days titans were rare DDD proofing for fleet ops was good but now there are so many its pointless.
In fact agility is almost the better option so you get into warp faster if you have slots available. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 09:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 05/06/2009 09:22:40
Even with 7 guns the apoc still does around 10% more dps than the rokh with 8 rails fitted (both fitted with 3 dmg mods).
Apoc with 7 guns 3 x dmg mods = 351 turret dmg with 0.00435 tracking (aurora). Rokh with 8 guns 3 x dmg mods = 321 turret dmg with 0.00301 tracking (spike).
And not forgetting that the apoc also has 75m3 of drone bay for dealing with tacklers using ecm or med/small dmg dealing drones.
Lets face it for close range gang combat the abaddon is just so much better than any other turret BS.
For sniping the apoc leads the field by the same massive margin.
For med class gang ships amaar have the harbi and the zealot.
For solo work they have the pilgrim/curse.
WTF CCP....
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 11:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Domis, megas, ishtars, myrms. I guess we could throw ships at each other and back for a week and still find more "counters" or "good for small/med/solo/gang" etc. But afaik topic is on weapons not ships.
I hav e yet to see a weapon flying around so as far as im concerned the abilities of the ships using these systems is just as important to achieving balance as the weapons themselves.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
a ferw months ago everyone was claiming ammar to be useles. THis is ridiculous claims.
I think you will find its a few years ago actualy.
And they are not claims they are facts with accurate stats to back them up.
Originally by: Seishi Maru There are balance issues in game but things are not as you try to state. Comparign apoc and rokh.. check how easy/hard is to make a good sniper with DD proof with each one.
Why bother when multiple titans and DDD are far more common now than solo titans, and that makes DDD proofing rather pointless.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 14:25:00 -
[57]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 05/06/2009 14:25:49
Originally by: Electric Universe .....
If you EVER fly in combat and get on ANY killboard in eve in ANY ship at all with a reasonable number of kills you may be worth listening to. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 15:19:00 -
[58]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 05/06/2009 15:21:43
Comments about pvp would be better recieved from somebody with actual pvp experiance and kills/losses to show for it, it would be even better if those kills and losses were using the ships/systems in question.
As far as the Megas effectivness is concerned this from the tri RR gang fight killboard link says it all:
TRI had 14 blaster BS on the field they lost 5... so 36% losses.
TRI had 13 laser BS on the field they lost 1........so 7% losses.
The blaster ships took 5 times the losses compared to the laser ships for almost the same number of ships on the field.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.05 15:36:00 -
[59]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 05/06/2009 15:38:11
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Actually we lost way more. Fight was going on both sides on gate so you'd have to check another fleet fight from same day. Was mainly to show that in RR situation blasters and lasers are pretty comparable damage wise.
Other side of gate: http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2741820
Thanks i was looking for that.
Ouch 111 hostile ships on the other side, with 11 ecm boats to your 31....u gots blobbed... |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.06 15:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rip Minner Yes Lazers are better then Hybirds and Projectils. Lets look at the Ships/Races and see.
Hybird's Gallents use Hybirds/Drones Drones are a big part of Gallents weapon systems and the Hybirds for the most part are meant to back up there drones. Even there gun ships have biger drone bays then most for this reason.
Hybird's Caldire use Hybirds/Missils mainly the Hybirds are meant to back up Missil damg. Even the there Gunships have more missil slots then most for this reason.
Projectils are used my Min's They are made to back up there Missil damg. And there the fastest ships as well.
Lazers Amarr Well that is there Main thing. Heavy Armor tanks and Lazers blazing.
Yes every race has the odball ship for doing what other races do like missil boats for Amarrs or a Drone carrier BS for Min's but the weapon systems are made for thre rolls as the races ships are made with there bounses.
Everybody knows that gallente have larger drone bays ect ect ect ect.
But those definitions are not justification for the various races/systems to be imbalanced as far as game play is concerned. |
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 17:54:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rip Minner
The point is real balance means making all weapon systems and ships the same.
Not really as you can give differant weapons str in areas that others are weak as this will allow differances and balance.
At the moment the problem is that there is no reason/benifit to use blaster BS over laser BS in gang combat RR or not....even at blaster optimal.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:50:00 -
[62]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 07/06/2009 18:53:42
The weapons that work at the closest range need the best tracking and while AC may have the lowest optimal they tend to work more in their falloff and at longer ranges than blasters need to.
Also a mega with max skills and 3 x T2 tracking comps loaded with tracking speed scripts cannot hit a WEBBED inty under 6km and only hits it for 1 - 13dps from 6-10km.
It also made very little differance against a webbed vaga (base speed 3441ms, webbed speed 1373ms).
So anybody saying that a small tracking buff to blasters would break the game ect is obviously clueless and yet again is making totally false and utterly untested claims.
ANYWAY A TRACKING BUFF IS UNIMPORTANT AS BS ARE GANG SHIPS AND IN GANG COMBAT TRACKING IS UNIMPORTANT DUE TO MULTIPLE WEBS. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 19:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 07/06/2009 19:06:20
Originally by: Rip Minner
You could have got'n me with that one.
Nobody is trying to "get you" with anything, nor is this a thread for clever word play no matter how much some ppl wish it was.
This is a thread for facts.
Originally by: Rip Minner If I had not seen blaster setups riping new ars-holes in gang combat RR. Just last week as I have friends in FW that use blasters to very good effect.
Perhaps you need to understand the differance between UNBALANCED and USELESS.
The posts in this thread are clearly showing a imbalance in the BS classes of close range weapon systems but at no point have claims been made that BS blasters are utterly useless. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: jullll Lasers EAT A LOT OF CAPACITOR and DAMAGE TYPE CAN T BE CHANGED.
Blasters use cap and blaster ships need to mwd a lot to get into range, blasters dmg also cannot be changed.
Originally by: jullll Try to fit any amarr ship with pulse + multifreq + repairer cap stable, good luck.
Try to fit a gallente ship with blasters + AM + repairer + mwd cap stable, good luck.
Originally by: jullll Neut, or track disrupt an amarr boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Originally by: jullll Stop posting your DPS stats without tacking in consideration the whole picture.
Stop posting your emo fueled ranting about things other races also suffer from.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:47:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Originally by: bubbly bird Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
wrong, better tracking is better
Wrong better tracking is only better if it is better by a large enough margin
And their is not a large enough margin to make any differance.
As well as the fact that a mega being hit with a optimal scripted TD has its turret range reduced to 4.2km optimal +5.8km falloff while the abaddon with scorch still has a 17km optimal and 3.7km falloff.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara and mids for webs too
Mega slot layout 8, 4, 7. Abad slot layout 8, 4, 7.
Not only that but BS are gang ships so multiple webs will make up for any ship that does not fit one.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:03:00 -
[66]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 08/06/2009 15:06:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
Please post a link to a killboard with you in a mega soloing frigs and cruisers.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So that's the reason i said boost the DPS on Blasters by 5% ONLY.
By that, the Blasters will get a huge DPS advantage inside web range.
Blaster mega = 935 turret dps with caldari navy AM and 3 x mag stabs so a 5% dps boost = 46.75 dps boost.......hardly huge imho especially when you consider that most mega fits do not use 3 x mag stabs.
Originally by: Electric Universe If you nerf the tracking on Lasers to how they was before they got the tracking boost some years ago while Lasers will still be nice at longer distances from 30 to 60 km where they are meant to be good.
A tracking nerf is a waste of time as multiple webs in gang combat let alone the fact that in RR gangs you cannot orbit hostile ships makes tracking unimportant. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:32:00 -
[67]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 08/06/2009 15:32:22
Originally by: Electric Universe EVE is a game where you can do many many different PVP styles. So a change like i told longer up would help those who doesn't do RR gangs alot.
RR or not any gang with 2 webs will make a tracking nerf pointless.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
Please post a link to a killboard with you in a mega soloing frigs and cruisers. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:42:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara LOL, no, better is better; you're the troll with the highest QI in the thread so here's the explanation: we're talking about fine-tuning so large enough margin means 5% rather than 50%.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara <<better tracking is still better tracking dude, tracks x range = K
I suggest you learn the basics as scorch at 17+3.7km tracks better than null at 4.2+5.8km.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Lol this is the best one. "chooses not to fit one". dude it has no mid.
It has 3 mids so depending on the gang setup its can have mwd/injector and a point or web.
1 less web or 1 less point in a gang is not the end of the world so stop acting like it is you fool.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:47:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara dude it's called neut.
A nuet effects blaster BS as much as laser BS and the fact is that laser BS with scorch have the ability to work way outside large neut range while blaster BS actually need to be within med neut range.
Have you tried the noob player forum as its proly a better place to learn about ships and systems than here tbh.... |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.14 13:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Also just a hint: lasers are not short range weapon. They are mid range one (damaging ships above scram range) Just fyi.
Maybe you should perhaps mention that to the lasers cos the ones i use hit just fine at even super close range.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Weird coz ones i use dont hit "super fine" unless when you are in proper gang with tacklers/closerange BS with webs. If yes, then it all works properly.
What kind of a stupid answer is that?.
They do work "super fine" in the only form of PVP available to close range BS cos i can tell ya that those needs of "proper gang with tacklers/closerange BS with webs" are exactly what blaster BS needs to be useful as well.
Is your pvp on EFT then cos i have yet to be in a gang of BS (unless they were snipers) or any other gang with BS in that did not have plenty of webs available.
Maybe you should start thinking along the lines of realistic and available pvp for BS and understand how many webs/tacklers are readily available instead of just looking at the basic eft/math.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.14 18:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: bubbly bird
Maybe you should start thinking along the lines of realistic and available pvp for BS and understand how many webs/tacklers are readily available instead of just looking at the basic eft/math.
Sure, last few losec roams:
mega + geddon + mael = whole 1 web for gang geddon + geddon + mega = 1 web
So other than proving that you and your other 2 gang mates are total idiots for flying around in a gang of 3 BS without the ability to be able to tackle and hold/kill a reasonable amount of ships what is your point?.
If you actually went out in these setups/ships and are not full of crap.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire There are plenty of cases where you dont get "enough" webs but you can only talk about blob warfare it seems. Face it: eve is NOT ONLY blobs. There is quite a few small gangs and even solo situations.
Yea yea i can pick out a gang of a few ships that can maybe suck but only a total moron would fly them or even try to use them as a example for balance.
And only a complete tool would try to act like the only option other than those ships/fits is blobs.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire And yea my answer was as good as yours. Reality check: lasers do not hit fine unless you have lots of webs on your side.
Reality check?...gimme a break 2-3 webs make tracking unimportant and id hardly call that "lots".
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.14 19:37:00 -
[73]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 14/06/2009 19:43:18
Originally by: Deva Blackfire except for random insults and some garbage you didnt post anything sensible
Acomment about sensability from a moron who "CLAIMS" he flies aroung in a 3 man BS gang with only 1 web?????........
Im actually having difficulty deciding what is more stupid..actually doing it or claiming it shows anything of particular importance to this issue...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I know in "your" eve everyone is webbed from start of combat. Unfortunately in "your" EVE experience there are no kills/losses to prove it. So try again and EFT less.
You are the one who needs to look at eft less pal.
I have no interest in discussing this issue with a idiot who "CLAIMS" he flies around in gangs of 3 close range BS with only one web between them and then complians he has tracking issues.
Whats next?..are you gonna fly around in blaster frigs and complain you cannot snipe?...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also (reading previous pages) you want tracking boost on blaster ships. Why? You just stated that in gang combat tracking doesnt mean anything thus you are contradicting yourself (comparing with your above post). So why boost tracking when its not important? Explain.
If you could not be bothered to read the context and full details of that discussion and choose only to pick out certain words like a petty troll thats your problem as its quite clear what was under discussion. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.14 20:38:00 -
[74]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 14/06/2009 20:41:14
Originally by: Deva Blackfire rant
As i said in my posts, a person who "CLAIMS" to fly around in 3 man BS gangs in todays eve and only brings one web along and then whine likes a biaaaach about tackle/tracking issues is obviosly a person its piontless to argue with.
I suggest you post with realistically available styles and reasonable fits and ship choices before you make a even bigger plonker out of yourself.
You could just STFU though as it would be easier. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.15 09:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 15/06/2009 11:10:42
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Because flying with 3 BS in lowsec just to break gatecamps in not enough?
It is or its not as that depends entirely on the targets.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire And because i needs 3 webs minimum in EVERY fight, yes? No.
Again maybe and maybe not depending on the targets, although after the web nerf ect a small gang of turret BS is much better prepared with multiple webs than without.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire I can fly with 3 bs and even NO webs and still get kills. Learn to play.
And i can jump in a noob ship and get kills....i suggest YOU learn to qualify your stupid posting and ranting.
And whining about tracking being bad and then clearly saying that you can get kills anyway makes you look like a total TOOL btw...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire deranged ranting.....
Blah blah blah..
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Lemme guess. Maralt? Coz your posting resembles his. If you and he are the same person then the chatter ends here coz you are one biased troll.
So if i say yes your gonna STFU with your pointless drivel....... I that case ....YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES . |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.16 11:44:00 -
[76]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 16/06/2009 11:52:18
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Thanks CCP for battleships, or amarr would suck in all and every class.
You have no idea at all wtf you are talking about.
BS class:
Apoc (best sniper BS in the game). Abaddon/Armageddon (best close range BS in the game).
BC class:
Harbinger (most of the races have a good BC for one role or another and amaar are no exception). Absolution/damnation (nice dmg ect from the abso + great active armour tanking bonuses for small low sec gate camping pirate gangs from the damnation).
Cruiser class:
Pilgrim/curse (arguably the best solo pvp ships in the game). Zealot (also arguably the best gang pvp hac in the game). Guardian (a great logistics ship for spider tanking).
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara there's more than damage type, dps and resistance to the game.
Look up and learn. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.16 11:46:00 -
[77]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 16/06/2009 11:46:45
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
People use autocannons on punisher/maller due to no actual bonus to lasers from the ship and thus fit autocannons due to ACs being easier on the fitting requirements. If they could fit lasers properly, I'm pretty sure they would.
Ppl did the same with the myrmidon as well for the same reason, as well as using a passive shield tank on it as well. |
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